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Tell Tale Signs
Interview Transcript
Professor A Mishra
Life Sciences Sambalpur University
"Actually it's very difficult to quantitatively
speak the impact of climate change on Orissa, but whatever
I have found in my own analysis, the construction of river
valley projects like this the Hirakud dam project, they have
immensely affected the local climate, I mean the microclimate
- we can think of climate change in 2 different directions
- we can talk about the change in the local climate and the
change in the global climate - it's very difficult to tell
how the global climate change has affected Orissa, but the
local climate change is very clear - say for example I took
100 years of information 1880 - 1980 and I found in this region
on Western part of Orissa earlier there were 120 rainy days
a year, clear 120 days, therefore the local people call it
a poor mans monsoon, in local dialect it was the masha mean's
poormans, now the total rainfall is 50 days less than 2 months
- so for a century we have a reduction of 50 days of rainfall
annually."
Another clear indication: there is an increase
in the average temperature - then the relative humidity the
moisture loading capacity of the atmosphere has changed in
a negative direction. The atmospheric pressure shows erratic
features - the rainfall has also become erratic - sometimes
people expect rain they don't get rain sometimes they don't
expect rain they get it - so they get flashfloods, lot of
damage and so these are the few things which I have seen at
the local climate change. But it's very difficult to assess
the global climate change impact say for example the depletion
of Ozone layer impact or the greenhouse gas impact - its very
difficult to say but the impact is there, one cannot deny
it, but to speak in clear quantitative terms how much it has
affected the state of Orissa is very difficult at least in
terms of science and ecology I don't think I can quantify
it. But that can be quantified if somebody takes interest
and studies it but as far as my information goes nobody in
Orissa has studied this. So it's difficult."
"Now if we talk about the impact of the
dam actually it's the system, the dam is a dam, but the dam
itself as it is doesn't have an impact - it's the system -
by that I mean the dam, the reservoir the canal systems everything
together it's a project - so when you talk on impact you have
to talk on impact of the project its not the dam as it is
- if you go by that I visualise this project in two parts,
one part is the catchment area from where the water drains
into the reservoirs. The other part is the command area where
the water is utilized through the canals. So when you talk
about the impact you have to talk about the impact in both
these areas. I have started to establish that in the catchment
area lot of forest has vanished. At least around this reservoir
within a span of half a century I've found I calculated, from
satellite imageries and other quantitative information 50%
of the reserve forest I mean the government protected forest
are gone, deforested - this is above the catchment. Once that
happened lots of good earth has trickled down into the reservoir.
So more than 40% of the water holding capacity of the reservoir
has decreased. So the amount of water that the reservoir is
supposed to hold is not holding now. The other way, the command
area…"
"The problem that the demand system has
created in the demand area is excess of water - the problem
of the command area is excess water. Because after the canals
have provided, most of the village forests of the command
area they have gone - because people have converted those
village forests into croplands. So now the only important
crisis in the command area is that of fuelwood or construction
materials people don't get them easy, because they have almost
? and destroyed their forests. So the earlier the rich biodiversity
of this area has got affected both ways - in the catchment
area because of forest loss and in the command area because
of expansion of agriculture then excess of water - every time
the croplands are under water, so it's the problem of waterlogging
- waterlogging leads to salinization, extra salt, it leads
to alkalization, more alkaline in the salt, so to counter
that the farmers are depending on more input of lime. Now
always waterlogging means more pest attack, so they are going
for more pesticides, more fertilizers more pesticides, so
it has become a sort of self accelerating destructive system.
And like the white soil of Iraq or the white soil of Pakistan,
this area is leading to a situation where there will be white
soil of western Orissa The soil you will get almost, it will
be dead soil. And that's another ?? for desertification. Because
water irrigation is one of the causes of desertification,
its established by ? studies. So this is the problem of the
command."
"There are additional problems of the
catchment and command both, and that is the loss of diversity
because from early morning rising from the bed, till average
citizen of Orissa goes to bed they are connected with several
types of plants or animals, now they are separated from this,
because for example to brush the teeth we don’t depend
on a toothbrush, we depend on 10 varieties of twigs broken
from the nearby or the savanna or the forest, now that practice
has gone similarly 60-70 varieties of pinenuts, leaves that
we cook and eat, several varieties of mussels, … so in
every sector of survival food, fuel construction, firewood,
medicines, because of the loss of diversity of the area, a
common man, a person living down to earth, is affected. People
who have money they can purchase things from the market but
people who do not believe in the money formula, those who
believe in the economy of materials collecting gathering things
from their surroundings they are the most affected people
in Orissa. So this is broadly an impact of the dam and the
irrigation system."
"The other thing is very interesting which,
I have become controversial for that, what I find is it's
a huge more than 900sq km of area is now covered with water.
Earlier this was covered with trees. There is a difference
when an area is covered with trees and when an area is covered
with water. When it's covered with water it gives only evaporation.
When it's covered with trees it gives two things, evaporation
and transpiration - that means it draws water from the soil
and sends it to the cloud. The reservoir also sends water
to the cloud but the water is not drawn from inside the soil,
so it's a one way story. So it creates a sort of a cooling
area, the transpiration effect is now gone so it quickly a
lot of moisture gathers around the clouds so when the monsoon
clouds pass over the reservoir in the Northeastern side of
the reservoir there is a lot of rain I have data to show the
rainfall in the northeastern side of the reservoir has increased
and in the southwestern side of the reservoir it has decreased
so now the areas of Bolangir and other places of Kalahandi
district which are reeling on the drought, I see it the drought
is created due to the reservoir, because on one side of the
reservoir is extra rain and the other side of the reservoir
there's no rain. Earlier this was not the fact, there was
a balanced rainfall around western Orissa. So through the
reservoir we created prosperity in one area and poverty in
the other area; we created greenery in one area and loss of
greenery in the other area so if we make a sort of a cost
benefit analysis of the exact impacts of the reservoir things
will be improved. So these are very interesting impacts.
"Drought is a very confusing word. Usually
we say a place is under drought when there is a shortage of
water. But for what? Now my analysis of available figures
tell me that the area of Western part of Orissa which suffer
from drought the average rainfall of the state is happening
there. So it gets the record rainfall, even then it suffers
from drought. Which means that the water doesn't’t fall
at a time when it is required. And we are mostly connected
to rainfed agriculture in this area. Everybody says this,
but I have a different view, in western part of Orissa there
is a folk saying, I will translate the folk saying into English
they say "a house runs well if there are old persons
in the house" and a cropland runs well if there is a
water storing depression near the crop area. We had thousands
of them. Almost 20, 25, 30, 45, 50 per village. So whatever
runoff water was coming people were trapping those runoff
water in depressions which they were constructing little deeper.
And they were having it in three types. A type of water storing
device with bund on all the four sides and another water storing
device with bund on three sides the other water storing device
where natural depression was bunded on one side with elevations
on the two sides small hillocks or something. And there are
plenty of these things around.
Over years I have found from my analysis in
Bolangir district at least in certain areas of Bolangir, 80%
of these water storing devices are dead - in certain other
blocks 50% of the water storing devices are dead. This affects
the area for loss of crop and when crop is lost people call
it drought. With the rainfall remaining the same the catching
of the runoff water, trapping of the runoff water in traditional
water harvesting structures are dead. So drought is created
by the people of the region by themselves, because they have
neglected their water storing devices. Otherwise why should
they suffer from drought when there is average rainfall. I
agree I have information that the rainfall has become erratic.
Earlier what happened there was a perfect ecological balance
with the protected forest systems the productive croplands
the required wild animals the required public behaviour, cohesive
societies, cooperative communities, they were doing their
things everything was under the balance, now everything is
under disbalance. So the rainfall has become erratic, very
simple. Now to bring that back is very difficult, but my suggestion
would be if western Orissa would like to save itself from
drought then thousands of these water storing devices which
we call traditional water harvesting structures, I would put
it in this way. That the structures of wisdom by the people
earlier, must be restored. Then there will be no drought.
Then comes the question of flood - flood is
also related to this - when we say an area is under flood,
its simple that in a flooding stream the water is flooding
out. It's just flowing out that means the amount of water
that that stream was about to hold its now not capable of
holding, that means because the run off water is not trapped
in the villages is not stored in the villages so excess run
off is going down to the streams - that is flood. And when
there is erratic rainfall over the normal it becomes a flash
flood. People are asleep in their homes suddenly in the morning
they find that they are no more, they are in, carried to distance
because the flood in this area is not the flood equivalent
to the coastal plains of Orissa.
In the coastal plains of Orissa people know
that the flood is coming - it will come at this time so they
get prepared. Here people do not know about the flood they
never expect the flood so they are asleep at home so suddenly
in the morning they find that their house is not there and
they are transported 2 km with their belongings. These are
very dangerous floods called flash floods and I can relate
these flash floods to the non storage of water in the village
water storing devices. And deforestation of the hillocks.
Where earlier lot of water infiltrating into the ground because
of lots of leaf litter from density of trees water was , the
earth was drinking water - now the earth is no more drinking
water, it refuses to drink, so this water is flowing and that
is the cause of flood. And more so, flashflood. So to save
the area from drought and flood we have to conserve the trees
on the hillslopes, because this is a hilly area, we have no
choice, we'll have to increase the ground infiltration that
means the capacity of the ground to drink more water, we have
to check the evaporation - that means the capacity of the
sun to take more water from the ground and the water surfaces;
then there is a solution. It needs public uprising, public
organisation networking a lot of action programmes, some people
to guide these action programmes all these things are required.
Its coming up. I'm happy that some youngsters have started
doing this in the region but they are yet to get organised
into networks and organise things I hope they will do it.
Part 2
"Now if they are small dams or even medium
dams, without displacing people, without destroying forests
without submerging lot of crop lands - then one can tolerate,
but when a whatever is being built which displaces people.
Destroys forests, destroys wildlife, submerges rich crop land
then should be opposed. That means the scale of the water
storing device, that means the reservoir should ? five norms.
Because people will tolerate a reservoir if it gives them
benefit and doesn't’t cause them harm - our problem is
with out engineer friends, they say that they construct for
public benefit and they show an analysis which they call a
benefit cost analysis. Usually they escalate the benefits
and reduce the costs when they project the proposal. But when
they complete the project we find that the cost is escalated
and the benefits are squished so its cheating. Unfortunately
in the third world, people are not that educated so that they
can audit the activities of the engineers, the constructing
groups, because they are always in connivance with the people
in power so this is my the outcome of my own study."
I cannot agree with large reservoirs like Hirakud
or Aswan or … for that matter any other reservoir, but
there is a vested interest in these as well, that is the global
funding agencies, specifically the world bank and the international
monetary fund. They want their money to be invested in the
third world. They want some profit to be generated here. They
want that the resources to be utilised here and the developments
to be taken by them so they will definitely like to invest
their money because they gain interest in two ways, interest
in terms of the loans and interest in terms of the products
and the imports from this region. But our people must be vigilant
over it. So this is briefly what I feel about reservoirs.
Reservoirs are beneficial. If they store the water to be utilised
for fish culture or other aquaculture and for utilisation
in the crop fields, but if they submerge people if they displace
people if they submerge forests they destroy wildlife we have
to attach cost to this, to each type of loss. Then on the
other side the benefit side. Because in many areas of our
state flow irrigation is not recommended. Because flow irrigation
causes waterlogging. If we have sprinkling type of irrigation
or drip type of irrigation where we can provide water to the
crop as if its an artificial rain falling on the crop many
experiments have been conducted and its more beneficial than
flow type of irrigation that floods the field and water gets
logged."
"They are putting in many areas of India
the conscious leadership - they have opposed the flow type
of irrigation so we have to see the soil condition and lot
of other things. So the construction of reservoirs to hold
water should get concerned with all these factors, that means
a public audit - unfortunately we don't have that public audit
system - therefore the vested interest always go on building
their - because they have some interest there, and people
are not reacting because they are not conscious they do not
know the calculations, so they believe in things because they
are given belief that they are progressing with the dam they
believe it - now they realise."
"I have talked to so many old people of
this area they told me that when Hirakud was proposed the
type of information which was given to them, they became very
elated that progress is coming to the area. Now they are lamenting.
They say oh god oh you should have understood this - even
I will tell you the, he is no more he is dead, the ex-chief
minister of the state, when I spoke to him about the impacts
of the Hirakud reservoir and the canal system and the irrigation
system as a whole. I have no objection to name him because
he's now in the heavens, Mr N Chouwdry - he categorically
told me, Arta why were you not there when I was heading the
state as a chief minister. If someone like you would have
come to me and told me these things I would not have allowed
Hirakud reservoir to be constructed. But I am so unhappy because
at that time I had no students of science like you to tell
us these things. Now you tell us these things after the impact
is ? - then I request him sir you can see that it is not repeated,
but unfortunately there are several other dams which after
the Hirakud system when other people were in power they did
it. So there are a lot of ? involved in the whole thing. Let
us see let us hope for the best."
"Now what I would like to say about this
- I have told earlier that this reservoir amounts to an area
more than 900sqkm, and there is lot of water which gets evaporated
from the surface of this area - earlier this area which is
now under reservoir was mostly under villages, under forest
or ? and its small scattered water systems here and there.
Now after the entire thing was converged into a larger reservoir
there was lost of moisture output at time. Therefore the clouds
over the reservoir and around the reservoir becomes loaded
with extra moisture, so when the monsoons come, specially
the south western monsoon, and crosses over the reservoir,
the monsoon clouds, they get a cold region a its caused actually
a drop of rain to fall from the clouds, it needs the intraction
of 16 factors, if 16 factors are perfectly interacting with
each other then we get a healthy drop of rain falling on the
ground."
"One of the important factors is the dewpoint
Formation that means how cool it is so that the moisture can
condense to become a drop of rain. So when the dewpoint of
this area is extra cool, then there is lot of condensation.
So in the Northeastern part of the reservoir after the erection
of the reservoir and the dam till that, there is information
to prove the northeastern part gets more rainfall during the
monsoon and in the southwestern part, that means the ? plains,
..? plains are closer so they get more rain, but if it is
Bolangir, if it is Kalahandi, by the time the clouds are there
they have less moisture in them and in that area the forests
are gone so the dewpoint is not forming therefore the clouds
are not condensing there so they are not getting exact rain
when it is required. Sometimes they are getting it because
of other factors, so this is a major impact of the reservoir
on the monsoonic rainfall of the area. Then the other things
like temperature, relative humidity other factors, its very
difficult to establish. But around the reservoir it can be
established. But away from the reservoir its difficult."
"If I am allowed to react to this very
briefly. I always say that climate change are the problem
of the globe - it is a problem of the rich nations and the
rich people of poor nations. So the rich countries of the
world they have poor people also there - so it is the lifestyle
of the rich people, the affluent people which causes climate
change. So, the rich and affluent people enjoy their lives,
the poor people suffer theirs this is briefly what I see.
Whether we call it increase of greenhouse gases increase of
particle matters, we talk about the depletion of the ozone
layer and any other dangerous impact of causes of climate
change - mostly it is due to the affluent lifestyle of the
rich people of the rich nations and the rich people of the
poor nations. So it's the, the rich people's world creates
the problems and the poor people's world gets the impacts.
So a solution to climate change problem to
my mind is the poor people of the world must get organised
and ask the rich people what are you doing and who allows
you to do this. Whether there is a law for you and no law
for us - so climate change can be handled with global legislation
and global awareness, global communication of the poor, global
networking and global organising - I don't find any other
solution."
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